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UPDATE 26/07/2015: Up until today, stats were calculated based on closed trades only, which we found did not represent the full picture of investors’ performance. Starting today, all stats will include open trades data.

This means that, for example, profitable trades percentage and even number of trades, will include any trades you have open at the moment.

This is another step towards our goal of making the stats accurate and truly representative of our investors’ trading activities, to enable you to make smart and informed copy decisions.

*   *   *

The user stats page on eToro OpenBook is probably the most important page you need to look at in order to make a copy decision.

With that in mind, we are excited to announce that the new revamped stats page is finally here!

The new page is filled with only the most important and relevant pieces of information, so it is now easier to get an overall picture of each investor’s performance and trading style.

Note that this is not just a design change –  we’ve changed formulas, added new elements and enhanced existing components – all in order to help you make more informed copy decisions.

The new stats page is built out of 5 cards:

  1. Performance

  2. Risk

  3. Copiers

  4. Trading

  5. Additional info

Let’s elaborate more about each card:

1. Performance

new stats performance

We went with a completely different approach here, viewing each user and potential copy as an investment fund. As such we’ve aligned with industry standard and are now showing monthly and yearly returns. You can see the monthly returns both in a clear table as well as in the accompanying bar chart.

Along with this new approach, we’ve also changed the way we calculate monthly performance. We no longer use the modified Dietz formula, which has raised many questions among you, due to its complexity. Instead we decided to go with this simple formula:

Where:

E1 – is the equity at the end of the month

W – is the total withdrawals made within the month

E– is the equity at the beginning of the month

D – is the total deposits made within the month

To explain: this formula simply represents the net change in equity during a given month.

For example: Let’s imagine that in January you had a starting equity amount of $1200, you lost $300 through trading, and deposited an additional $800. Later that month you gained $1100 through trading, so that on the last week of January you had $2800 in your equity. You decided to withdraw $500 to buy something nice to yourself, and therefore your account equity at the end of January was $2300. So what was your return for January?

E1 – $2300 is the equity at the end of the month

W – $500 is the total withdrawals made within the month

E0– $1200 is the equity at the beginning of the month

D – $800 is the total deposits made within the month /p>

The return for January was therefore: 40%.

The yearly performance is calculated traditionally by multiplying the monthly returns throughout the year.

If the returns over 12 months are r1,r2,r3….r12 then the yearly return is:

(1+r1)(1+r2)…(1+r12) -1

So for these are the monthly returns:

yearly returns table

The yearly return is:

(1+0.035)(1+0.01)(1+0.1)(1-0.15)(1-0.02)(1+0.07)(1+0.06)(1-0.05)(1+0.04)(1+0.12)(1-0.08)(1+0.03)-1=13.92%

2. Risk

new stats risk

As the old saying goes, there’s no reward without risk, especially in the financial markets.

The returns shown in the performance card, were not achieved without risk, and it’s important to know and understand the risks that the investor is likely to take going forward.

We’re introducing the Risk Score – based on industry standard risk assessment calculations (VAR), the risk score shows the risk the investor is taking on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 means very low risk and 10 means extremely risky (as in – likely to blow out the account without taking restrictive measures).

The risk card shows the following elements:

Current risk score – is actually the last 7 day average of the user’s risk score. We’re using an average here because risky traders can close all of their positions to try and lower their risk, however it is the average that tells the real story.

Monthly Average Risk Score – this bar chart shows the monthly risk score average over the last 12 months. Compared with the performance table above, it shows you the real risk and reward picture. It also shows you the history of the investor from which you can learn about his/her risk taking tendencies.

Max Drawdown – the max drawdown is the greatest loss the account equity suffered during the selected period (daily, weekly, all time).

3. Copiers

new stats copiers

eToro is a social investment network, and its strength is in the wisdom of the crowd. It’s important to learn what the community thinks about an investor, not only in terms of discussions, but in terms of actual investments.

The copiers card shows exactly that – the amount of copiers currently copying this investor, as well as the copier chart showing copier amounts for the last 12 months and copier trend in the last 7 days, where you can see the change in absolute number of copiers and in percentages.

A new element we’re introducing in this card is the Copy AUM, a figure that represents how much money is currently allocated to copying the investor. This is actually the sum of all of the funds copiers have invested in this trader, shown in ranges of: under $50K, $50K-$100K, $100K-$300K and over $300K.

4. Trading

new stats trading

We’ve covered performance, risk and copiers, but it’s also important to learn how this investor achieved the above results. The trading card shows important information about the user’s trading history and investment style.

The upper part of the card shows total trades and profitability (along with average profit and loss) as well as the portfolio distribution shown as a colored bar.

The lower part of this card shows the investor’s top 3 investment instruments in terms of number of positions. In other words – what does this investor likes to trade? For each of the 3 most frequently traded instruments (markets or people) you can see the number of positions, profitability and average profit and loss.

It’s important to mention, that in generating these stats we no longer see copied trades as your own. This means that the copy action is in itself counted as a trade, with profit or loss, and the copied trades made by the copied user do not count towards your statistics.

5. Additional info

These are other important stats that you should take into consideration when copying a user:

Active Since – This is the date the investor started trading with eToro. It’s important to understand whether you’re looking at a novice trader, who started trading 2 weeks ago, or an experienced investor that’s been trading on our network for over a year.

Trades per Week – How many trades this trader opens every week on average. This is an indication on his/her activity level. A trader with 50 trades per week on average is very active, whereas a trader with less than 3 is more of the long term investor-type.

Average Holding Time – This statistic shows you what kind of trader you’re looking at. Is this a day trader, holding trades open for a few minutes only, or a long term investor holding his/her positions open for months?

Profitable Weeks – Shows what percentage of weeks, since this user started trading with eToro, have been profitable. A high Profitable Weeks rate shows consistency over time.

We’d like to thank all the eToro community members that have given us the feedback which has guided this long and thoughtful redesign process. The entire conceptual framework behind this new page was born out of adopting your point of view and considering what information you need in order to have the best possible Copy Trading experience.

Now all that’s left to do is head to the eToro OpenBook and check out the new page for yourselves!

What do you think of the new stats page? We’d love to hear it!

All trading involves risk. Only risk capital you’re prepared to lose. The information above is not investment advice.
46 comments
BerilaMarian

Question : Copiers are real and demo ( both ) , or are only real ?

DamirBuljat

Why don't you just post percentages of monthly performance as all the professional trading funds do?!

If a trader opens an account with $1000 and losses $100 by the end of the month then his/hers performance is -10% for that month. If he/she shows winnings of $100 at the end of the month then its 10% profit on the account balance from the previous month. Simple and clear. The statistics you are showing are ridiculous and misleading at best of times. Example: my statistics are showing -1.72% for the month of September yet my closed losing positions are at -9% of my account and my current open positions are at +32% of my account. How is that calculating into -1.72% monthly performance is totally beyond me...

amnonco

@DamirBuljat

Hi Damir, 

We're doing exactly that.


The performance calculations shown in the stats page are based on your equity levels each month.


it updates once a day at 00:00GMT.


And so, your current equity (as calculated at 00:00GMT) is exactly 1.72% below the starting equity for the month of September.


Cheers,

Amnon


DamirBuljat

Hi Amnon.

My losses so far are 9% of my starting capital.

My open trades are 21% up on my starting balance, so my equity is 11% up on my starting balance and my account balance excluding current open trades is 9% down on my starting capital. Where does this 1.75% comes from is a mistery to me. The way you guys calculate those percentages are totally wrong.

amnonco

@DamirBuljat
Hi Damir,


I can't expose your personal equity levels in here. if you want to keep discussing this, you can send me an email to amnonco@etoro.com

JulienCohen1

your first formula is right, but why dont you write it this way:

[(E1-E0)-(D-W)]/(E0+D)


Also, Not taking into account the withdrawal in the dividing (E0+D) can lead to lack of accuracy:

- If you withdraw in the beginning of the month, you made more money with less, but your score will be lower than should be.

- If you withdraw at the end of the month, it is perfectly right.


in all cases, the performance is lower or equal to reality

mahirzukic2

I love the new stats page, it's awesome. It has all the necessary information about a trader you could copy at one place. It makes our lives much easier.

Marat Karimov

Average Holding Time stat does not reflect the real picture. For example, a trader could have few 12-24 months long trades and at the same time 80-90% of his positions are held for 2-3 days. In this case his Average Holding Time will be like 1 month or so, even though he does not have any 1 month long trades. You could take a look at Dimitrios1 (his nickname in Etoro) to see what I mean.

Peter2705

I am very impressed with the explanation of how to get started, with the breakdown of the procedures in how to make a trade. The only think I need to go over again is how to find a potential trader who will help me make a successful trade, by coping them. I would also like to get further information on the various types of trades and what are the lengths of trades that are available?


God Bless, Peter  

bensahot

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with us, I think the mt4 platform should be provided to traders because it easy and quick

MaximeVallet

Hi,

There is an obvious issue with the "yearly return" formula. If r1, r2,...,r12 are the monthly returns in a year, the formila gives a total of (1+r1).(1+r2)...(1+r12)

There is a problem because if the treader is doing, say, 100% every month, exept ONE month when it is a bit below -100%, then the total will be very negative although it should be above 0.

There is a sign issue with the product here, and it's quite obvious on Santosh Tiwari's profile in 2009 for instance.

amnonco

@MaximeVallet let's check your argument with just 2 months.

let's say the trader started with $100 and made a profit of $100 in the first month and then lost $198. he is left with $2 at the end of the 2nd month.

how much was his return?


1st month - 100% return 

2nd month - -99% return


what would be the product of such an example:

(1+100%)*(1+-99%)-1 = (1+1)*(0.01)-1 = 2*0.01-1 = -0.98 = -98%.


he started with $100 and finished with just $2 - therefore he had lost 98%.


DimitriosCharalampidis

@amnonco @MaximeVallet The calculation of the yearly return fails to represent the correct yearly return of the account. Instead it should be calculated just like the monthly return but imputing yearly data i.e. total yearly deposits, yearly withdrawals etc... A great example of how wrong is the current method is the current status of my account. It shows -100.12%, which means that I lost more than deposited, when the reality is that I am almost flat... -1.94%
 @dchara01 = eToro Profile.

andy007

iv looked at the new system and the old one, I agree you can not get all the relevant information you need to make a judgment call on who to copy. I am brand new to this, I don't think I can invest any money into this system why was in changed?

Phyntox

I am confirming that performance is misleading. There is something wrong in my case.

I lost almost 50% in February. Then I made almost 100% profit in march (till yesterday). So that means doubling the amount after the loss. So my yearly performance was around zero. Then I made a Deposit, and after the deposit I also made two profitable trades.

But my performance shows that I made only 7% profit this month, and - 44% yearly????

That is definitely wrong


I have made an example starting at 100$


February: 100$ -50%(50$) = 50$


March before deposit: 50$ + 100%(50$) = 100$ - yearly there should be 0%


Deposit 500$


100$ + 500$ = 600$


600$ + (two profitable trades approx. 10%)= 660$ 


And at this point the etoro yearly performance shows -44% ... HOW?


Hope there is some reasonable explanation.


Thanks in advance

OscarHerrera2

@Phyntox I think you should mark 20% year.


Some popular traders, with a lot of copiers, all numbers in red. I dont get it either.


GBitter2

Dear solutionmania,


Thank you for the comments on the new system, it is exactly what I mend to say. I have tried to write some comments on copy talk but this comment is removed. It seems that e-toro doesn’t want to have too much discussions on this matter. And I don’t like the Idea to write on the wallpaper of popular traders to make my point.


I can’t select traders with this system. So, I have to go trading myself and stop with copying traders in the coming future.


solutionmania

... continued from previous comment ...

Finally, and just as importantly, it has just been 'dumbed down' too much. I want to be able to access as much detail as possible so that I can make my own judgements about not only a trader's performance, but the *way* they trade. How do they manage their account? Do they let losing positions run or do they get out early, etc.

This point is particularly highlighted by the fact that one of my most consistently performing traders who I would consider low to medium risk has been awarded a risk score of 7 or 8 by eToro. However, someone who has nearly blown up their entire account twice has only been given a risk score of 6.

This leaves us in a situation where we have nowhere near enough information to make sound judgements over who to follow (and even the information that is provided can't be trusted).

Luckily I am relatively happy with the traders I am already copying as until eToro address this issue, there is no way of selecting new traders short of picking them at random - in which case we may as well just take our money to the casino.

eToro - please give us, your customers, some sort of response on this issue. We are not interested in your stock responses such as "Please give the new system some time - you'll get used to it" or "We asked some people and they said they liked it".

amnonco

@solutionmania  Hi Solutionmania,


First, let me say, thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with us, and that we do take into account user feedback in our developing process. 

You have to realize that the latest stats page change, is a part of a major change we're about to introduce. it will all make sense when you see and experience what's about to come. 

In the next comment I'll address your concerns.

amnonco

@solutionmania

let's go over your concerns one by one:
1. IE - we're working on fixing the relevant bugs.
2. The figures are absolutely correct. due to privacy, I will not expose your specific equity levels, but you can shoot me an email. let me assure the rest of our users reading this, that the new performance formula is both accurate and simple (much simpler than the formula we used in the past).

3. Your top investments are sorted based on number of trades. but, point taken, in case of same number of trades, we will take into account the actual results.
4. As mentioned above, we will soon introduce many features to support copy decision, such as new user charts, for example.

5. Current risk score, as mentioned on the post itself, is a 7 day average. the monthly average is a better tool to assess users' risk. also, since risk is a measure of portfolio volatility, you should compare similar risk level traders' returns or similar return level traders' risk score. in your example, there's no question the 7-8 risk traders are better than the 6 risk score trader.

solutionmania

@amnonco Hello. Thanks for taking the time to reply...


1. Glad to hear it - I look forward to the update! Although I still find it quite worrying that your internal quality checks didn't pick this up before release!

2. Can you let me know your e-mail address so I can talk to you about the specifics of this?

3. I don't really understand what you're saying here - I don't believe I ever even copied one of the traders in my list (Rowaihy)!?

4. I very much look forward to seeing the new features - I hope they provide us with much, much more detailed information!!

5. The example I was thinking of was the excellent Bansino28 whose monthly risk score varies between 7 and 8. BigWinners (who has lost me quite a bit of money and, I would say, is a much more risky trader) only scores a 6!? I appreciate no algorithm can be foolproof - but that only backs up the need for us to be able to see the raw data.


As I say, thanks for your response.

- Chris

solutionmania

Well - I'm not really sure why I'm bothering to comment here - eToro don't seem at all interested in answering any of the completely justified complaints / concerns about the new user statistics pages (I've raised my concerns on the customer service 'wall' and through the support system).

However - in the hopes that *someone* at eToro is listening to the overwhelming majority of people who seem to think that this is a step backwards, here are my thoughts on this new feature...

Firstly, I have major concerns over the quality of this piece of software - it clearly hasn't been tested properly. It has been live for a few weeks now and it still simply doesn't work in IE.

Secondly, I have absolutely no confidence that *any* of the figures can be believed. My own stats page, for example, shows that I made about a 4% profit in February. However, I know for a fact that my balance went down in February.

My 3 'Top Investors' (according to the stats page) are two investors who did nothing but lose me money and one who I never copied. There are many other investors who have made me significant profits that aren't listed at all!

So - the story so far is that we have a stats page which is both broken and inaccurate. (I'll have to continue in another comment, as there appears to be a limit to the comment length...)

GBitter2

Hallo, I am trader by copying traders. 


At this moment we have new tools which make it difficult to select traders. Also the tools with statistics don’t give me detailed information about my own tradings. Why is this the case. Is it because etoto doesn’t like copiers?


Are there any copiers out there who has a opinion about this subject?  


kannaiah

Changes made to stats page is not good infact for me it looks like they are hiding the facts or trying not to present all facts together.


I would like to see all stats for all the trading history in one graph along with risk 


Old one was doing that but new one skilfully hides past history, ofcourse you can see but it is very tedious.


Pls bring back old stats, they are much more useful in selecting whom to copy.


GabrielBlaster

 Hi, I'm new to etoro, but i think the performance formula is incorect. My performance is showing a negative %, although my equity is more than it was when I started.

uncleale

the new graph try tu brief in one line the 4 lines that the old graph had

This is hiding a lot of information about how the trader follows the Market

I dont like it at all

Please leave the old graph somewhere

picking people to follow like this is like playing roulette 

Click4Deal

The older version was much better with graph and that one you could choose day, 1 month, 3 months, etc., and showed in graph form. 


HOPE eToro listen and offer us a choice of using eToro. @Click4Deal -  http://etoro.tw/1DTrSqA

RaulRomeroZavala

Please bring  back the old one!


With this new version I cannot see the performance of the comerce without the withdraws and deposits of each user, wich is very important in the decision of copying or not.

Lmlmlm

I like the part of the old version that says the total number of trades closed for a time frame of 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, etc. It also says how many of those trades were closed in profits. I can't see that from the new version, so please add that to the new version

ted12

Please bring back the old one.


It's easier to pick best traders with the old one as it shows their daily activity clearly with the graph.You can easily know if a trader is careless by just looking at how the graph goes.With this one a trader might loose 100% for let say $10,000 & gain back 100% for $100 within one month & the gross monthly result will show positive but we cant know this up & down with this version

MukulIyer

i liked the the graph showing the total equity, realized equity and the copiers  on different time frames before, it showed a better visual representation of our progress.i like the bar graph as well as it summarizes our monthly gain/loss, however it would be better if the old chart could be brought back along side the bar graph  you have now. additionally the newer version also takes a lot longer to load and view. 

the gain/loss percentages on different time frames below the line graph were also very nice, which i would like to see back. the table at the end which showed other statistics (e.g short/long ratios, manual to copy ratios etc) was excellent. the old system, was better to read from in general.


oferlapid

Also it loads much slower, your web apps are a drag and it takes too long to check out investors to copy if the stats page takes 20 seconds to load. Bring back the old one please.

lucasruizdiaz

 Old version was better, All I get is "Error loading stats" and "unauthorizedforpreview", "unExpectederror"... Old graphs where easier and faster. Is it posible to come back to the previous version?

oferlapid

Where can I see the eraned value you used to have before which tells the nature of the trader when rates go down ? This was an indication I used to select whom to copy now it's gone. Besides reading the old graphs is easier that the new bar charts. Is there a way to go back to the old version ? 

Bigwinners

Impressive improvement, Well done to the developers :-)

DavidRoberts3

@Bigwinners  How can you say "Well done developers" when initially it didn't work at all on IE (the worlds most common browser) and the charts still don't work on IE (no green bars).

Quite apart from the fact that they don't provide as much information as the old charts (comparison of realized and current equity, for example), and you can't see at a glance the performance of a trader over the recent period of, say, six months, can we believe any of the figures?

My own profile chart shows me making a 2.96% profit to date in February whereas I know for a fact that I am down a little on the month with no cash flows.  It also shows my "top investments" as three people, two of whom I have not copied for many weeks and made me a decent loss, and the other is one of my poorer performing traders.

How can we believe anything we see on these profiles?

ArturRosa

@Bigwinners Hi, I'm completely new to eToro, Forex and all that kind of "money talks" but Improvement means something done or added to real property that increases its value, but in reality they are hiding information. So then the question that arises here is: "What is the alternative to eToro?" Perhaps in this way the team of eToro start thinking differently about catchy changes. 

amnonco

@ArturRosa @Bigwinners

Hi Artur,


The new stats page aligns perfectly with our plans to lower the risk in our entire ecosystem. that's why we've introduced the Risk Score. this was precisely done to make your, as well as other new investors' investments safer.



the performance calculation we used before this change was flawed - not that it wasn't mathematically correct, it was simply a matter of over complicating something that could be simpler - which is what we have now.


This page makover, is a part of a bigger change that is coming soon, and would make a lot more sense as a whole. stay tuned.


btw,

what information are we hiding? what would you want to see that you cannot?


Thanks,

Amnon,

Trading product manager for eToro.


FsgGauthier

" @amnonco @ArturRosa @Bigwinners This page makover, is a part of a bigger change that is coming soon, and would make a lot more sense as a whole. stay tuned."

Hope you weren't refering to the improductive fancy mess that the new platform is... When are those sensible changes due?

DouglasQuinton

@amnonco @ArturRosa @Bigwinners


Every serious forex trader I have seen in the past uses "myfxbook" to provide complete and verified detail of history - trading and graph and detailed drawdown profile.  Without this it is ludicrous to make a "copying" decision just based on bar graphs.


I hope the improvements will bring back a proper graph and detailed drawdown profile to actually be able to measure risk on a more objective and mathematical basis.


Thank you !